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Jerry: Aug 4, 2008 I am a noahide and for the first time I reallize that the torah forbides a zionst state. I want to be true and faithful to Hashem in my life. As a noahide am I commanded not to have anything to do with the zionist state? of all the noahide movements I think everyone is pro zionist. I think that the zionist movement has controlled all of the noahide movement. can you sned me teaching of want a true noahide is? and if a noahide person is a zionist is that person a false noahide? I know this much that Jewish people are to be a light unto the nations. please teach me what a true noahide is. for I believe that the zionist has hijected the noahide movement. Dear Jerry, Thank you for your letter. I appreciate your desire for the truth. As a Noahide, you want to be a true friend of the Jewish people, which leads you to a dilemma, since there are so many who claim that friendship to the Jewish people means support for the Zionist state. But this is not the case. Just a quick look at the historical record is enough to convince anyone that the State of Israel has not made life better or safer for Jews. 28,000 Jews have already been killed in its various conflicts, there has not been a quiet moment, and we are still in danger to this day. Furthermore, the Torah teaches (Deuteronomy 30:3) that G-d will be the One to redeem us from exile. The Talmud explains further that any human attempts to bring an end to the Jewish exile will fail. To support such an attempt, made by Jews ignorant of their own Torah and Talmud, is not supporting the Jewish people. A true Noahide will welcome the Jews as his neighbors, not support their immigration to a foreign country like the Zionist state. Apart from this issue, the Noahide movement has been a great thing in bringing the Torah's message to the gentile world. We hope that your observance of the Seven Laws will make the world a better place. Hersh Lowenthal Thank you for your quick reply Rabbi Lowenthal. As a Noahide I believe that you are to be a light unto the nations to all of us gentiles. I know that as a gentile I am fobiden to study many parts of the torah. What books can you recommend for me to read and study? You are right that the noahide movement is a great movement to bring torah to the gentiles! but if you look at the noahide movement you will see it is 100% controlled by the Zionist. They support and give money to groups that promote aliya to Israel. Are you reaching out to the know noahide groups to teach them the difference between true Judaism and securler Zionism? It is my desire to please Hashem in my life. Non-Jews seeking to learn about the Torah can be vulnerable to certain special interest groups of Jews, like the Zionists, who will take advantage of them and present their point of view as if it's the only Torah view. I think Noahides should read "A Threat from Within" by Yakov Rabkin, which details the full spectrum of Jewish views on Zionism and puts them in perspective so that an outsider can understand.
The Seven Laws are the minimum for gentiles, there are indeed some laws of the Torah that a gentile may not fulfill, but in between there is a large area where a gentile can excel. For example, we live in a very promiscuous and immoral society. To be sure there are legal standards for morality and certain things are still considered indecent. But society has fallen a long way in the last 100 years. I am sure that a gentile woman or girl who takes upon herself to dress and act modestly and decently will be rewarded by G-d. There is a book called "Doesn't anyone blush anymore" by Manis Friedman. It is somewhat geared to Jews but a non-Jew could gain from it just as well. Also, there is a lot of crime today. A Noahide who doesn't steal or kill fulfills his own obligation, but he can go a lot further than that by working to combat crime, and to encourage the preservation of the stable family unit (mother, father, children living together) which tends to prevent kids from turning to crime. |
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| M. Lerner: Saw your recent article about the Zionists threat against Iran causing the rise in oil. I guess the price of oil getting from $10/barrel in 1999 to $127 in 2008 was not by the Zionists, since it jumped another $11 only after their comments about attacking Iran. And if the paper trading big investment banks doing the manipulating of oil prices since 1999, which include all of their many daily excuses funnelled to the financial press they themselves support, excuses that speak nothing about Israel, happen to dump oil to below $127 even while the Zionist threat remains on the table, you will then say... what? How about, "Zionists quiet about attacking Iran for a few weeks cause oil to drop below $127..."? LOL at that one, Hersh. You guys can do better than that! Also, please headline for us that even the Arab dominated OPEC says that oil prices are unsustainably high: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080614/oil_prices.html?/v=2 Hmm, wouldn't one think that if the Arabs wanted to take advantage of the situation by scapegoating Israel they would simply use the opportunity to blame the rise in price on Israel instead of admitting that prices are artificially high and unsustainable? Adrabah, if you can correct me on the oil price issue I will change what I wrote. I don't mean to sensationalize, just to tell the truth, but the financial world and economics are not my specialty. " I've been involved in the stock and commodities market for over 10 years. I would take me too much time to go into how the scheme works. All I'll tell you in brief is that the entire system is a pyramid scheme system set up and run by Institutions using other people's cumulative monies (amounting to $trillions at present) to create an ongoing BID-ASK market. The end goal of the scheme, which can take many years to unravel, is to enrich the fund managers (which is why they will always tell you to hold for the "long term"), the insiders for the companies, and the small percentage of the wealthiest clients of the funds. Everyone else will end up losing much of their money eventually, and that is a lot of people and a lot of money, far far greater than in the 1930's depression. Oil's run up was planned since 1999 by these same institutions, many of whom bought in their largest positions at much much lower prices than you see today. Currently, the trading of oil is being investigated. The problem is that those doing the investigating could also turn a blind eye, since after all a wealthy Institution has money to hush them up. The same thing has happened with other commodities that were dormant for many years (silver, gold, platinum, rhodium). A group of funds with large pools of money arbitrarily decide to "play" with a stock, a bond fund, a currency, or in this case a commodity. They run it up, sometimes after having largely cornered the market on share supply, thus allowing them to bid up the price between themselves without actually buying (i.e. churning). There are many articles on the subject. Type in "stock market pyramid scheme" and you can read a few. Eventually, this will hurt the masses, sad to say. And given the amount of money and number of people involved, it could really lead to a social mess unlike any we have seen. If you want to blame someone, blame the Investment banks and funds who are manipulating the prices on oil higher and higher. Naturally, they want the public to believe that it is "other forces" that "cause" oil prices to go up or down, since they don't want people to figure out that it's all just an arbitrary game of a BID-ASK pump and dump scheme, looking for outsiders to participate and take their money from. That is why you can read daily excuses as to the latest reason why oil went up or down on a given day. The people who feed the financial press those daily story lines are the same one's manipulating the price in whichever direction they choose. I just don't agree with your comparison of the stock market to a pyramid scheme. The writer of the apocalypse soon site makes the important point that stock prices are driven today not based on the actual values of the companies but based on speculation. But that doesn't mean that it's inexorably headed upwards until it crashes. Stocks go up and down over the months and years. Sometimes there are big ups and big downs. The stock market is like a glorified version of Las Vegas. You have to take a risk, and if you win, you have to quit while you're ahead or else you might lose. A pyramid scheme, on the other hand, just gets bigger and bigger until it suddenly runs out of gullible participants and then it collapses for good, never to return. Those who lose, lose their money for good.
Back to the oil question: yes, it is speculators driving the price up, but are you sure their speculations have nothing to do with reality? For example, in the gold market, let's say gold is suddenly discovered somewhere. Won't the speculators respond to that by trying to sell their gold before the price drops, thus accelerating the anticipated drop? If the oil investors have reason to believe there will be a big drop in the world's oil supply, driving the real price up, won't they respond by buying up more oil so that they can make money, thus driving the price even higher? Thus for example, a war between Israel and Iran might naturally cause the price to rise by, say, $2 a barrel, but due to speculators' activity this rise would be blown up to $11 a barrel. It's an artificial rise, but it's based on a rise in the real world. See this link in which the JTA, who are certainly not out to blame the Zionists for every problem in the world, say the same thing I posted in our news section. http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/article/20080703drennenpomfrey.html |
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| Palestine Remembered: Dear Hersh Your web-site is hated by Wikipedia and every effort made to diminish its importance, but your community is apparently of significant interest, see the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satmar_%28Hasidic_dynasty%29#Satmar_succession_feud Please note, I am prepared (even delighted) to help you with getting JAZ properly recognised, but I don't wish to involve myself over the Satmar entry/ies. I am defending you vigorously at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:PalestineRemembered#Blocked - it's not easy to follow, but I trust I'm doing you credit! Best Regards, PRR Dear Hersh - please respond to this address. The following is probably most of the article that used to exist on JAZ. The "==" signs and the "[[xx]]" signs do different things in Wikipedia, but it doesn't take long to get the hang of it. You can use a sandbox to check how things will look, and even edit without registering if you don't want to do so. However, I would suggest you not edit your own entry, this is naturally frowned upon! Someone (probably knowing nothing of this version of the article) has started a new article on you, but it's currently no more than a "stub" (Google should find it). The person starting the new article has probably lost interest by now and in any case doesn't realise the extreme amount of opposition they will get making an article on you stick. Basically, you're hated (much like me). You're described as extreme, a hate-site and fringe. But the only evidence is what I've presented on TalkPages, and it paints you as solid citizens, fully deserving of the coveted title of RS (reliable source). I would like us to work together, because I'm sure I can do a lot to help you. There are modern day things concerning Israel and the pogroms it commits that I'd really like to publish. Is the JAZ suitable for that? *** I see what you mean about the Wikipedia editors refusing to give our site credibility. Thanks for sticking up for us. The article below is on Jewish anti-Zionism in general and I think it still exists in wikipedia. It's not about our organization in particular. The wikipedia editors seem to be only against using us as a RS for other articles but they have no problem with us having our own article, just as Neturei Karta has their own article. Hersh I think the Zionists who are threatening to permanently block me from the site if I dare to use the information on your site are, in the regular meaning of the word, antisemitic. They seek to incite hatred of Jews by linking you to the crimes of Israel. It has lots of advantages - except to you, who will and do have to live with the consequences. But I can only do so much by hinting that this is the problem, and even working together, we couldn't possibly break the Zionist strangle-hold, since Wikipedia needs vast sums of money to operate, and Israel presumably pays for lots of it. But we could embarrass them and open the door for anti-Zionism a bit ... what do you think? Who recorded this Rabbi Baruch Kaplan interview, do you still have the recording? It would be tragic indeed if he only started talking about his life in Hebron late in life - are you sure he didn't write anything down? Wikipedia could be a huge boost to you, your community and web-site. But it needs careful thought. It needs people like you to come to my defence and make people like Avi and "Ryan Postlethwaite" (not his real name) feel uncomfortable. But I don't know the best way to do it! I'm blocked until 9.30 this evening, and it will be days before they lift the block on my IP, so I can't be any help for the moment. What they want me to do is to cheat and open another account, then they'd be able to hound me for ever. I've refused ever to do this. Can you tell me what your web-site is interested in hosting? Are you convinced (as I am) that Israel is on the skids? If so, is it any part of your work to try and document messages like this one from Avraham Burg, http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/868215.htm "A Jewish state is explosive. It's dynamite." In an interview in Haaretz Weekend Magazine, he said that he is in favor of abrogating the Law of Return and calls on everyone who can to obtain a foreign passport. I have expanded the article about our organization to read: Jews Against Zionism is a religious-political movement and non-profit organization. It argues by the use of quotes from the Torah, and the history of Zionism, that the ideology of Zionism is in total opposition to the teachings of traditional Judaism. The organization was founded in 1999 in Brooklyn, New York by several members of the Satmar Chassidic sect. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/endorsements/index.cfm The organization is also known within the Jewish community by the name Natruna. Natruna is an Aramaic word meaning "waiting" and is intended as a reference to a Midrashic commentary, Pesikta Derav Kahana, on Exodus 12:6, which states that the Jewish people will be redeemed from their final exile in the merit of their waiting patiently for the redemption. History The idea of establishing a public relations office to spread the views of anti-Zionist Jewry and to counter Zionist propaganda originated with Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, the Satmar Rebbe (1887-1979). On February 20, 1955, Rabbi Teitelbaum called a gathering of activists from 37 different Jewish groups in the Viener Synagogue in Williamsburg, at which he established an organization called Ichud Olami Lemaan Chizuk Hadas the World Federation for the Furtherance of Torah. (Natruna and Its Activities, p. 21.) On the stationery of the organization, the following were listed as members of the Rabbinic Committee: Rabbi Avraham Shlomo Katz, Rabbi Dovid Jungreis, Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rothenberg, Rabbi Mordechai Savitzky, Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Friedman, and Rabbi Shimon Yisroel Posen.[ http://www.natrina.org/yiddish/brochure.pdf The organization rented a Manhattan office at 246 Fifth Avenue, as well as a Brooklyn office at 134 Broadway. On June 27, 1957, Rabbi Teitelbaum called a second gathering in his house, at which he exhorted his students to make sure the World Federation continued to exist and publicize the views of anti-Zionist Jewry. He recognized that many official Jewish organizations might not want to join the Federation; nevertheless, he said, there were surely individuals in every group and community who would want to join. He asked his activists to recruit 1000 members from all communities, each member paying $10 annually. (ibid. p. 26) As late as 1967, the World Federation still existed and was mentioned by Rabbi Teitelbaum in a speech in connection with the battle over forced autopsies in the State of Israel. (ibid. p. 28) However, no mention of it was made for the next 34 years, although the Satmar community continued to hold periodic demonstrations against Zionism. In 2001 the organization was re-established under the name True Torah Jews Against Zionism. The organization's website was launched in 2002 in response to a widespread demand from the public for more information about the subject of religious Jewish opposition to Zionism.(p. 35) http://www.natrina.org/yiddish/brochure.pdf Activities: Over the past seven years, Jews Against Zionism has placed several advertisements in the Washington Post and the Washington Times, as well as on the radio. On its website, Jews Against Zionism features coverage of current events with their comments, historical information about Zionism and Judaism, quotations from famous rabbis, an online bookstore, weekly commentary on the Torah, and an archive of questions asked by visitors and the answers they were given. The question and answer archive gives a unique picture of the major arguments of the Zionists and anti-Zionists, as the visitors and the staff writers of the site debate the issues, sometimes heatedly. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/about/response.cfm Some of the writers for the website are: Hersh Lowenthal, Reuven Waxman, Leizer Fishberg, and Yirmiyahu Cohen. The website features endorsements from several rabbis from various circles, including Satmar, Brisk, Sephardic and Lithuanian. Jews Against Zionism has published two books, Efes Biltecha Goaleinu in Hebrew and In the Footsteps of the Flock in English. http://www.natrina.org/articles/efesbiltecha.pdf http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/bookstore/productDetails.cfm?merchID=24 - 11k - Jews Against Zionism is neutral in the Satmar succession dispute, and they are endorsed by prominent rabbis from both Rabbi Aaron and Rabbi Zalman Leib Teitelbaum's factions of the community. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/endorsements/index.cfm The largest recent outpouring of support for Jews Against Zionism came on December 3, 2007 when over 1500 people attended an inspirational banquet in Brooklyn to benefit the organization. http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=90 The event was covered by the Satmar community's two major Yiddish language newspapers, Der Yid http://www.natrina.org/yiddish/deryid%20kinus.htm and Der Blatt http://www.natrina.org/yiddish/derblatt%20kinus.htm I should have warned you, do not edit your own article, you're bound to get caught! And it will look very bad on you! And I should warn you now, if we're not very careful, the bullies will link you and I together, and we'll both be in serious trouble! And Avraham, the bully who has told me that he'll block me for ever if I dare link to you again has nominated your article for deletion! Under the circumstances, it's barely worth fighting - your web-site is very well known, very valuable, but, yet again, Wikipedia is going to get rid of it. The charges against you are that you're extreme, you're "fringe" you're self-published (ie no fact-checking going on) and you're anonymous. Neturei Karta have an address somewhere (Jerusalem?), which partly explains why they're in slightly better favour than you are. But also, of course, their web-site is nothing like as effective in damaging the case for Israel as yours is. Believe me, your web-site really is well known and well respected. I don't believe that the Zionists are going to stop their nonsense over JAZ in Wikipedia until they're forced to do so, probably by publicity. I think what you need is a newspaper story that accuses them of being bullies. And ... trying to incite hatred of Jews ... I don't think there's much question that that is what they're trying to do. Hersh, The system is sending people to look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Natsmith - which tells them that Natsmith has only ever made 2 edits. The next thing is that you will be accused of being a sock-puppet for an existing user (probably somebody banned). I'm puzzling over the deletion debate. But in the meantime, another of your members (sadly not registered! unlike YidisherYid) wrote this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=67.139.62.77 I'm a Satmar member who can attest to the fact that this organization takes its philosophy from the teachings of the Satmar rabbi Joel Tietelbaum, and its financial support from his today's over 120,000 (according to latest news reports) followers. I now recall a morning in the summer of 2005 as I entered the main synagogue in Kiryas Joel, a Satmar village in upstate New York with 15,000 residents. I met a huge poster stating: Support True Torah Jews. I followed a call from Rabbi Aaron Teitelbaum, chief rabbi of Kiryas Joel, to support this organization. I took out my wallet and found my last twenty dollars. I made my donation and walked away with an empty wallet. It's possible that the three above mentioned rabbis serve as an editorial board, but they are certainly not "the only" rabbis behind True Torah Jews. One should not expect as many Satmar internet users to notice this discussion as Zionist do, since Satmar educates its members to refrain from internet as much as possible. This vote will probably be decided by two types of voters; the ones who are truly unaware of, and the others who are truly biased against True Torah Jews. In the recent 6 months, I've come to rely on Wikipedia as my encyclopedia. It will be devastating to learn that I was only reading the side of the story allowed by interest groups. I will be shocked to see an article deleted because some people, who can't tolerate criticism against the Zionist cause, are better positioned on Wikipedia. Finally, it will also be informative to John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt that the list of Israeli targets for censorship now includes Widipedia, with quite some success! |
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